De-Stigma Dialogues
De-Stigma Dialogues Podcast
The Weight of Motherhood
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The Weight of Motherhood

Episode 2.2 Transcript

Welcome to another episode of De-Stigma Dialogues. I want to start by giving you an apology. I’ve been told by my daughter that I do this way too much and without cause. In fact, this is something that was discussed last season, this inherent trait in women I’ve coined the ‘apologising gene’. For you newcomers, or those wanting a refresh, that discussion can be found in episode 1.9 Myths, Paradoxes, Syndromes and Magic. In response, all I can say is that I am a work in progress, but back to this apology. I want to apologise because of the time lapse between episode one and this one. I’ll explain, you see I placed a schedule on myself to get these episodes out weekly. I did it because I want to keep you all engaged and also to keep the momentum going, not just for you but also for myself. And by structuring the podcast like this, I am able to take some time between seasons to prepare for the next. Last season, there were a couple instances when the episode was posted later than I wanted or planned and honestly, it almost derailed me. Let me give you an example of how this could happen, see I’m that person that will get excited about going to the gym and start going and then miss one class and then never go back. I didn’t get derailed last season but I still carry some fear that this podcast can go the way of so many gym memberships in my lifetime.

Then my brilliant sister reminded me that people will listen or read these posts in their own time. I’m not on network television or radio, so I should get over myself. I gotta tell ya, this reality check helped me get through last season, but alas, it all went out the window this season when my type A personality coupled with Imposter Syndrome, the apologising gene, life and the people pleaser in me reared their heads again and all at once, and well here we are three weeks later… like I said work in progress. Anyway, I’ll tell you why I am late with this episode: the theme! I announced that we will start unpacking motherhood and I got overwhelmed. That’s the truth. In giving the definitions last episode and really sitting with all of it, I suddenly felt the weight of this theme. Earlier this week, I got a reminder of an eye opening monologue that came years before America Ferrara’s infamous Barbie speech, that spoke to this weight that I felt. In fact, while I can now appreciate Ferrara’s speech (it took some doing and funnily enough that was also discussed last season), this monologue by Kristin Scott Thomas from the series Fleabag, just lands differently...

The weight that Kristin spoke to is exactly what stalled me. So I am apologising not just to you but also to myself for letting that weight slow me down. It was the weight of wanting to make sure that this podcast, my other baby, grows up to be healthy and productive. It was the weight of being a woman in the current landscape, of being a single mom, of identity, of life… the weight of motherhood.

Musical Interlude: Thanks for my child by Cheryl Pepsii Riley

I want to declare that I do not claim nor pretend to be an expert on this topic, and I will never portray that with regards to any other theme discussed on here. I do however, have experience with some aspects of all of the themes and I’ve read a lot and talked alot so I feel that I am able to moderate these dialogues and hopefully provoke thought and more discussion around them. As I mentioned, I was overwhelmed by this topic. I mean, motherhood is a big thing! Now to be clear, I wasn’t overwhelmed because I didn’t know what I wanted to say but because of how to start the conversation. In discussing this setback with my daughter, I explained that when I sit to write these episodes, I need a piece of flint, a trigger, something that starts the fire that enables my fingers to run across the keyboard. Like I said, I have much to say and things that I want to touch on but I needed that spark. I found it when I watched a movie called CLOCK. This film explored the infamous ‘biological clock’ and I thought that it was a damn good place to start. I am sure that we are aware of this term? Trapping? Trope? Euphemism? Manipulation Tool? Let’s explore this…

You know how much I like a definition so according to Merriam Webster, the biological clock is your body’s natural habit of sleeping, eating, growing etc. at particular times. In other words, your circadian rhythm. Notice that while the definition makes no direct mention of reproduction, it can be implied within the term ‘growth’. Notice also that the definition doesn’t specify gender, however this term, ‘biological clock’ is exclusively used in reference to women. To date, I can honestly say that I have NEVER heard a man speak about his biological clock. And why would he? Men’s bodies do not have the same time constraints as women’s when it comes to reproduction. It is no wonder then that this term has been placed deftly on our shoulders as a means of manipulation? Security? Fear? Let’s explore that…

I promise you that I am not a conspiracy theorist, at least not a fanatical one, but really, what would happen to the species if women turned off that ‘clock’ or stopped listening to it and stopped reproducing? I’m not sure how many women are aware that we are the ones that control population explosion and its counterbalance population drought, despite what the patriarchy would have us believe. This ability that we have to give birth is perhaps the most phenomenal showcase of power. As a gender, men are conditioned to believe that they control the universe and yet, they are unable to do the most powerful thing that any being can do which is make another, reproduce. When you add freedom of choice to that ability to create… well, the question as to which gender holds more power certainly becomes moot.

Musical Interlude: I am Woman by Helen Reddy (second verse)

Now, I want to be clear that this is not an episode about feminism though I did say that she would pop in for drinks. It is also not an episode about bashing the male gender, that is not now nor will it ever be on this podcast’s agenda, but it is about recognizing the response of the male gender to this latent knowledge. A response that by large, has been to deny freedom of choice and to try to exert control over something that it is not within their power to, through narratives that diminish the woman’s knowledge of her power and strips her of her choice to reproduce. The narrative that adheres us to this ‘clock’. The narrative that tells us when and how often we should ‘give in’ to this ticking time bomb. I am not saying that the male gender isn’t a vital part of this equation, I mean we technically need both genders for reproduction, what I am saying is that the act of giving birth expressly belongs to the woman. Even getting pregnant these days, with the evolution of technology, can be done without the male gender being present. Likewise, that same technological advancement has evolved to the point where neither male nor female ‘bodies’ need to be present, and yes, I am alluding to cloning. But, that is another hornet’s nest to be kicked at a later date.

Back to the topic at hand… motherhood.

Currently, the fight for control over women’s bodies have gone into hyperdrive, with the governments and organisations lobbying to force women to give birth regardless of circumstance. I’m not going to get into a debate about pro-life and pro-choice, but I do think that regardless of your religious beliefs, it must be acknowledged that stripping a woman of her autonomy over her body and her freedom of choice is tantamount to enslavement. Make no mistake, motherhood is joyous and rewarding and rainbows and sunshine, but it is also a yoke that can never be removed. Forcing a woman to carry that yoke can and will bring consequences and not just for the woman. Motherhood and by extension parenthood, can be an accident or it can be intentional but above all things it must be a choice, a conscious choice.

Musical Interlude: Choices by Leonard Cohen

I mentioned earlier that my daughter and I watched this movie, Clock, well because of it, I learned something that stumped me because I never thought that it was something that could exist. Were you aware that there is a phobia linked to motherhood? Tokophobia! Never heard of it? Yeah me neither. Of course, here comes the definition… According to the Cleveland Clinic, tokophobia is an “extreme fear of childbirth” that can lead women who suffer from it to take “excessive measures to avoid getting pregnant”. I spoke a few moments ago, about motherhood being a choice, well can you imagine what someone living with this condition must go through? Now, I had a challenging pregnancy, in that I suffered from severe Hyperemesis Gravidarum, no, it’s not a Harry Potter spell, it’s also known as severe morning sickness. I was throwing up hours before I gave birth. Thankfully, I had a fairly quick delivery, but the entire ten months, yes ten months, a full term pregnancy is 40 weeks divided by 4 making it ten months, not nine, still unsure why this myth is perpetuated… My point is that the entire pregnancy period was scary, no other word can aptly describe it. It was scary physically, emotionally, mentally and that was without my current knowledge of the high mortality rates of women, especially women of colour, during childbirth. It is well known and documented that in the US especially, but also in other parts of the world, the maternal morbidity and mortality rate of women of colour is disproportionately higher than members of another race. Giving birth is walking a fine line between life and death. There is a balance that must be struck and the odds are 50-50, so I completely understand why this can be a deterrent.

I remember reading and hearing and seeing images of women squatting in fields and giving birth and then just getting on with life. I mean Beyoncé immortalized it in her song Run the World…

Musical Interlude: Run the World by Beyoncé

These images created and perpetuated a narrative that childbirth is natural (which it is) but also uncomplicated (which it is not). These images only ever featured women of colour in extreme circumstances and poor conditions. They never showed a white woman squatting in a corn field and pushing out a child. These persistent images were used to perpetuate a narrative and a bias in medical training that women of colour can

one: withstand more pain,

two: are built for childbearing,

and three: are more of that word that I absolutely hate, ‘resilient’.

These narratives are fallacies and yet they are incorporated into medical training even today to the point that many times pregnant women of colour are dismissed when their questions and concerns are brought up to medical staff. And this is not just with medically trained professionals of the male gender that are caucasian. Doctors and nurses of colour are also guilty of this and that is not an opinion, it is a well documented fact! I am not saying that is true of all medical professionals and this point is not being made to shame those that work in the medical field. I do think that profession is a calling, the flaw lies with the medical training that hasn't evolved to remove these biases even in 2025! With modern technology and more understanding of the human body these mortality and morbidity rates should not be this high. We live in the 21st century for crying out loud! I am well aware that many doctors have God-Complexes, it kinda goes with the ability to heal, but to dismiss a woman’s concerns about her own body is reckless and contemptuous. I know that unforeseen things can happen but many of these deaths could have been avoided had the women been listened to and ingrained biases trained into the doctors were acknowledged and dispelled.

So yeah, I get why a phobia can exist, I understand. Like I said, giving birth is a huge risk to the woman. I know that I don’t have that phobia, but I did for a long time, fear pregnancy after I had my daughter. Honestly, I don’t remember the childbirth itself (this is due to the release of high levels of endorphins that essentially wipes our memory after birth by replacing the trauma of pushing a watermelon through your hoohah with euphoria thereby enabling women to complete this process multiple times, thus ensuring survival of the species, you’re welcome) but I digress… so I don’t recall childbirth but I do remember vividly being deathly ill almost every day I was pregnant, and no I did not want to risk that again. Y’all I had a spit cup. Do you know how disgusting that is to walk around with, and forget about cleaning it up if it spills… to this day, I have a visceral reaction to tums. I know from other women that every pregnancy is different but again, why risk it? So I didn’t and I have one heartbeat that belongs to my daughter. That said, I fully admire and respect women that have more than one child. The same as I fully admire and respect those that choose not to have more than one or any for that matter.

Musical Interlude: Paranoid Android by Radiohead

Choosing motherhood, in the traditional sense, takes a lot out of the woman physically but we can not forget mentally and emotionally. Prepartum and Postpartum are just as risky to the woman. Under normal circumstances, there’s some memory loss (yes, mommy brain is REAL), there’s some anxiety and depression, there’s also stress. In extreme circumstances, these can be exacerbated to the point of psychosis. Yes, PSYCHOSIS! Women can go bat shit crazy and kill a man. Also not an opinion, but documented facts. There is a prevailing misconception that mothers are incapable of harm, but mothers are human and ALL humans are capable of harming another under the right or wrong circumstances. It’s easy to identify motherhood with nurturing and love. It is what we have been spoon fed. Mothers love unconditionally and they willingly give up everything that defined them before having children in exchange for apron strings and baby bottles. Mothers are consistently shown to be anime eyed over their children and it’s true for many women. That said, some women are unable to bond with their children and that is a form of postpartum. What happens in these cases is that the woman is stigmatized as a bad mother. Her feelings are either villainized or ignored and they often become internalized by the woman, turning into that voice that tells her she’s not good enough and she should be ashamed. Too often, women hide the challenges they experience and tamp down on feelings of fear, anxiety and inadequacy because of their fear of judgement and persecution?...

If a woman doesn’t present to the world that she is the perfect mother by impossible standards set by a fickle society, she is berated and reviled by others but also by herself. Many of these standards were initially set centuries ago by the ruling class and the patriarchy and are unattainable and unmaintainable today. They do not factor in the help that “that woman received”, help that no longer exists in our modern society. There aren’t women that nurse your baby for you. There aren’t women that do night feedings and take care of your child through the colic and teething periods. Those women were the child’s mother behind the scenes, with the biological mother being present for picture taking and social engagements. Yes, there are nannies and au pairs but the extent of their assistance has evolved. As a society we have normalized the narrative that mothers are near superhuman and though I do believe that we possess superhuman traits, we are human and we make mistakes and we falter but we shouldn’t continue to be judged unconditionally for that by others, by society, by our families, by ourselves.

Change though is happening… Now there are so many quotes about being gentle with yourself as a mother. Quotes that seek to remind women that they are human and allowed grace. Quotes meant to empower and inspire and they do, in the beginning, but the weight that comes with these litanies of imperfectly perfect motherhood must be acknowledged. These new mom-fluencers with calligraphy scripts of paraphrased quotations, perfectly manicured photoshoots of choreographed chaos and disguised relatability reek of stepford-hood and judgement. It harkens back to a time that was simpler because of choice or lack there of and I can recognise the siren call to return to that time, but the bell can’t be unrung. This industry that has developed around the fantasy of the perfectly imperfect mother is selling motherhood at a hefty price tag: the cost is the denial of reality. The reality that there will be times where you will question whether you are a good mother, that you made the right choice, that you are doing what’s best for your child, that you can live without sleep or adult interaction, that you can reclaim yourself and your dreams, that you are the best mother for your child. This pastel coloured pinterest world of motherhood that crafts this hallucinogenic standard of acknowledged imperfection is actually laden with concealed judgement. All these quotes supposedly give us permission to be who we are, yet they patronize and minimize our challenges. Portending that all we, as mothers, really need is some self care to become perfectly ‘present’ actually manipulate more than they empower… it’s the illusion that society welcomes because the reality is too difficult to swallow. This state of illusion cements and perpetuates the stigmas that they lull you into believing they eradicate. Think about it, when you are or were knee deep in baby puke, hadn’t slept or showered in two days and your baby clings to you like two week old saran wrap, would seeing a pastel coloured quote that your baby thinks your perfect, or would watching another mom effortlessly soothe her baby in a beautifully clean room, outfit and baby while spewing another phrase like what an honor it is to be a tiny person’s everything make you feel empowered? Inspired? And when you fail to replicate these idealized versions that everyone believes… are you motivated? I think that if we are honest, the only thing we can all agree on is that motherhood is different for every woman and there is no singular ‘right’ way to be a mother and there shouldn’t be at any time, shame associated with this incredibly challenging role.

Musical Interlude: Superwoman by Karyn White

Whoa that was a lot! And we are just getting started… next episode I’m going to continue this discourse. Remember motherhood looks differently today than it did even ten years ago. Going forward I’m going to explore surrogacy and unconventional motherhood as well as what it takes to raise children and teens of different genders in today’s society. Thank you for listening and please do reach out and share your thoughts and stories, whether you agree or not, engagement is how we shed light on these stigmas and start to create a new normal. The first issue of our newsletter will arrive in your inboxes on Wednesday so be on the lookout! Remember to like and share and expand the discussion wherever you are. Until next time, be good to yourselves and continue to TALK OUT LOUD!

Musical Interlude: Shout by Tears for Fears

This may contain: a poem that reads i'm not team being a stay - at - home mom is

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